[generic] Black Hack/early D&D compared to 5e (relocated)

#42
One thing about old D&D was that it took much longer to go up in levels, so you could play some of the old modules for months and only go up 2-3 levels.
 
#43
One thing about old D&D was that it took much longer to go up in levels, so you could play some of the old modules for months and only go up 2-3 levels.
Indeed. My long running Rules Cyclopaedia game went from level 1 to 6-7 in 3 and a bit years of 2 hours a week.
 
#44
Indeed. My long running Rules Cyclopaedia game went from level 1 to 6-7 in 3 and a bit years of 2 hours a week.
What!

That is depressing. So I should just avoid those high level adventures in the "I" category for campaigns, and leave them for one-shots at conventions with level-appropriate pre-gens.
 

Guvnor

The Guvnor
Staff member
#45
What!

That is depressing. So I should just avoid those high level adventures in the "I" category for campaigns, and leave them for one-shots at conventions with level-appropriate pre-gens.
Or just use milestone levelling.
OMG I just remembered the different XP level progression and the cap on non humans. Jeez, throw that in the racism bag and walk away.
OMG2 just remembered the AD&D rules on class restrictions by race and alignment, gosh can that bag hold anymore?
IMHO POD isn't cheating.
 
#46
Thanks for the suggestion "Against the Cult of the Reptile God", I will see if I can secure an original copy if it is affordable in the after markets. POD seems like cheating, but if the price is too high, I guess that is the option.
Whatever you go for, there's a trick I use which I recommend. I did it with photocopying and real cut and paste back in the day. The main map inside the card cover is a village. There is something secret marked in the woods on the map. If you carefully cut and paste some trees to obscure that secret, you can lay down a copy of the map for the players to see. Describing and mapping a village is hard.
 
#47
Indeed. My long running Rules Cyclopaedia game went from level 1 to 6-7 in 3 and a bit years of 2 hours a week.
My 5e campaign has gone from 1 to 5 in 15 month, at 3 1/2 hours a week... so not that different.

Strange thing about 5e - if you follow the D&D Adventure League levelling guidelines for season 9 you can get for 1st to 5th in 8 hours of play.
If you follow the levelling guidelines from Waterdeep Dragon Heist and follow up on all the subplots, expect to take well over a year....
 
#48
My 5e campaign has gone from 1 to 5 in 15 month, at 3 1/2 hours a week... so not that different.

Strange thing about 5e - if you follow the D&D Adventure League levelling guidelines for season 9 you can get for 1st to 5th in 8 hours of play.
If you follow the levelling guidelines from Waterdeep Dragon Heist and follow up on all the subplots, expect to take well over a year....
Really? I am playing the Legendary Planet (Third Party) Campaign for D&D5e and we levelled up from 1st to 3rd in 6 weekends. Admittedly, one of the players, a Pathfinder diehard, ensures we check every building in the hamlet to run every side quest to get as much XP per session as possible. Almost, like we are donig the World of Warcraft questing routine.
 
#49
What!

That is depressing. So I should just avoid those high level adventures in the "I" category for campaigns, and leave them for one-shots at conventions with level-appropriate pre-gens.
For the sake of fair comparison, this is almost exactly the same group (different one of us as DM) that took about 18 months of the same 2.5+ hour weekly sessions to finish The Lost Mine of Phandelver...
 
#50
Levelling speed is a personal thing I have found. Some players like to get new goodies on a regular basis, others prefer to get used to their new abilities and play with them for a while before they are overshadowed by the next level. Re levels 1-3, there has always been an issue with character vulnerability in that range. I've heard several tiems that Gygax himself started players off at 3rd level. The Basic Sets were all 1st to 3rd level. 5E "cheats" and makes it trivially quick to go through the first 3 levels and pick your actual class. And then, at the other end, D&D of all editions gets pretty wonky past 14th level or so. There's a strong argument for just re-aligning the whole game to just range from the power levels of 4th to 14th, not 1st to 20th (or 1st to 36th for some editions). The BECMI Immortal and 3E Epic levels are a whole other game.

So in terms of playable levels, I think the official modules mirror the situation - lots of 1-3 modules because you would spend a lot of time there, losing characters until you eventually survived and made it into the more survivable level range. Not too many super-high level ones because no-one who played by the book would ever get there, realistically, so they were probably mostly played as one-shots with pre-generated characters.
 

First Age

D&D h@ck3r and Hopepunk
Staff member
#51
My D&D playing days were in the early 80s with 1e, so the details are hazy. The whole level progression thing was a dominent metagame within the game, requiring us to clear out peasants and take coins from small children. No XP opportunity was left unturned and bags of XP were always appreciated.

My only detailed experince of D%D like games is a bit of 13th Age and Pathfinder 2e, which cotinues the legacy of the 3.5 era but with a significantly tidied up approach. With PF they have uniform XP progression or Milestones as an option, which is the only way to go for me.

I'm a big fan of TBH for doing D&D in a simplified way whilst keeping many of the tropes intact. Its simplicity, even in comparison to 5e, is its strength and has a place for me still though probably in the one off territory. For even a small series of games with D&D feels I'd use PF2e.

I expect I could run any lettered early module using anything, includng Fate, but would probably just plump for PF2e as my D&D of choice. I haven't reviewed them, and there is so much other more recent material that I don't feel the need ot revisit. I could be missing out, but it doesn't feel that way. Perhaps the exception are some old White Dwarf scenarios, which make misty eyed. I was tempted to run The Lichway as a romp for Furnace using a a random ruleset of my choice, but 3-4 hours won't quite be enough.
 
#52
...
I'm a big fan of TBH for doing D&D in a simplified way whilst keeping many of the tropes intact. Its simplicity, even in comparison to 5e, is its strength and has a place for me still though probably in the one off territory. For even a small series of games with D&D feels I'd use PF2e.

I expect I could run any lettered early module using anything, includng Fate, but would probably just plump for PF2e as my D&D of choice. I haven't reviewed them, and there is so much other more recent material that I don't feel the need ot revisit. I could be missing out, but it doesn't feel that way. Perhaps the exception are some old White Dwarf scenarios, which make misty eyed. I was tempted to run The Lichway as a romp for Furnace using a a random ruleset of my choice, but 3-4 hours won't quite be enough.
Speaking of old modules of the early 80s D&D and looking at Paizo's recent controversy this year, the time streams may have crossed.

Not to be outdone by D&D, the good folks at Paizo had the urge to wade into their own Adventure Path controversy recently, with a smug looking law enforcement NPC auditioning for Agents of Edgwatch (and written by the renowned James L Sutter, former line director for Paizo's Starfinder).


I remember in my hunt for those classic old D&D modules, I stumbled across the hoopla that was "The Palace of the Silver Princess" in its original orange edition (that booklet sells for artefact level prices now, thousands of Dollars).

plance_of_the_silver_princess_original_orange.jpg
 

First Age

D&D h@ck3r and Hopepunk
Staff member
#53
Speaking of old modules of the early 80s D&D and looking at Paizo's recent controversy this year, the time streams may have crossed.

Not to be outdone by D&D, the good folks at Paizo had the urge to wade into their own Adventure Path controversy recently, with a smug looking law enforcement NPC auditioning for Agents of Edgwatch (and written by the renowned James L Sutter, former line director for Paizo's Starfinder).
I failed the perception check on that one. That's about to be released, what was that about? Is it related? Or do we need another thread?
 
#54
I failed the perception check on that one. That's about to be released, what was that about? Is it related? Or do we need another thread?
If we're going to get into the debate about whether it's a good time for Paizo to release an AP where you play police in gentrified slum district of town, we probably need a new thread.
 

Guvnor

The Guvnor
Staff member
#55
The palace of the silver princess A tale of misogyny and sexism. But not quite as TSR would have told you. written by a woman illustrated by a woman and then trashed by a bunch of men who remove the monster that has their faces from it.
 
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