[generic] I know everything why won't people listen? A rant.

#1
My #TTRPG club is about to start new campaigns. Choice is by signup sheet. But - despite my hints- there’s no fair queuing system. It’s gonna be first come/sharpest elbows. I’m biting my tongue. Clearly as someone who goes to shedloads of conventions I know everything there is to know about making sign ups fair. And this is going to affect people's lives for 12 weeks, not just 4 hours. Clearly the handful of 5th ed games are going to be oversubscribed - especially as presigns with agreement with the referee are allowed. And some of us have been blatantly canvassing for players. (I could possibly fill my game with presigns but I want it to be fair an welcome the chance to play with new people). So those willing to play the system will get what they want and the polite, decent people will go to the back of the queue.

It's like when I'm playing in a game and the referee doesn't run things the way I would. I've had to learn to keep my trap shut.

But, sometimes it’s really hard not to be a dick and tell others how to do things right.
 
#3
Could you not make clear that while you are in no way attempting to dictate what to do, in your experience of a variety of sign-up methods, good and bad, the most relaxed and fair way to do it is [I would say insert Revelation method here, but I don't know your opinion]. Surely that cannot be too overbearing a thing to say or am I not being British enough?
 
#4
Our FtF RPG group meets on a Monday at my house. It is made up of myself, my son Ben and his mates (since high school; they are all 20+ now), Matt, Joe and Harry. We have RPG’d for 11+ years; first with me as a GM, then with Ben joining in. We play 13th Age, Numenera and Savage Worlds.

I have to say, we are very much a closed group. We all work in fairly stressful jobs (in the public eye); Mondays are our way to let off steam; we are loud and noisy; we have a good laugh and go ‘off topic’ a lot; but still respect the GM and play along. None of us would ever go out to deliberately sabotage the Game. Ben and I run ‘sandbox’, so we can usually cope with anything the Players throw out.

My ‘Riverlands’ blog should give a good idea of what goes on.

We have had other people want to join in and we have tried to accommodate them. However, they are joining US, not us joining them. If they don’t fit with us, then they can vote with their feet. The only one who has stayed is Joe.

One thing we have never been able to decide on is a collective name for the group.
 
#5
Simon
As a big fan of GH and SQUK (and we have met, many years ago when you were running GH - the giant robot stomping the railway bridge in Selly Oak ...); If you ran an SQUK PbF, I and a couple of other players would be interested. My character would be Silverknight, an Iron Man derivative created on the train back from Dragonmeet. I have the blue book rules (cover by Jez Goodwin) and the GH boxed set signed by you and Pete (ICNDT: I can name drop too!)
 
#6
After some thought I'd like to edit that while I think the Revelation method is the greatest in terms of being able to relax with a full pre-sign and time for socialisation instead of queueing, I think the "randomisation" could be improved. It's clear that the random number generator gives each person one number to rule all slots. So if you're no 1 that means all slots win, if you're last you get second and third choices, and sometimes you also lose entire game slots unless you pull together between yourselves. So a small tweak of the randomizer would be to re-randomize for every slot... and to empathise enough to 'fix' issues when players are left with no game.

What sign-up system is your choice method @Simonpaulburley?

Posts 4 and 5 are interesting but I'm not sure what they have to do with the original post? :unsure: A general 'rant' thread? :LOL:

However, they are joining US, not us joining them. If they don’t fit with us, then they can vote with their feet.
That seems a good way to keep people out, I'd probably not even want to try to fit with such an attitude.
 
#7
After some thought I'd like to edit that while I think the Revelation method is the greatest in terms of being able to relax with a full pre-sign and time for socialisation instead of queueing, I think the "randomisation" could be improved. It's clear that the random number generator gives each person one number to rule all slots. So if you're no 1 that means all slots win, if you're last you get second and third choices, and sometimes you also lose entire game slots unless you pull together between yourselves.
Wrong. The Revelation randomiser is run separately for each slot.
 
#9
This sounds like a phenomenon that another one of my gaming group was discussing last week - the misreading of advice as gatekeeping - creating an atmosphere where people are loathed to make suggestions lest they are accused of somehow dominating an agenda. As with so many things in the world at the moment, a point of discussion is seen as an attack, a belittlement or an accusation. There are only two opinions; utter agreement or aggressive assault against. No nuance. Its sad.

Personally, I would have a quiet word with whoever constitutes a leadership unit at the club and raise some of your concerns. It never hurts to talk about the issues and see whether there is a need for change. Cultural change is hard - especially if there is no perceived need for change. But as many of us know, its not the problems on the surface that are the issue, its the ones under it.

Time to earn that Elder Statesmen badge mate - educate the padawans
 
#10
Could you not make clear that while you are in no way attempting to dictate what to do, in your experience of a variety of sign-up methods, good and bad, the most relaxed and fair way to do it is [I would say insert Revelation method here, but I don't know your opinion]. Surely that cannot be too overbearing a thing to say or am I not being British enough?
You're not being British enough, IMHO.

I have two preferred systems for conventions:

1) for spaghetti conjunction we steal the Concrete cow method. Numbered tickets. Draw 1-10 in the morning and everyone with a ticket ending in thst number goes to sign up at the same time. No prebooks. Reverse the order in the afternoon. Equally fair/unfair to everyone. Great for Games Days.

2) 7Hills/Furnace - limited prebooking, more for referees. Encourages people to offer games (not too many). Ensures everyone gets to play at least one game they really want. Great for weekend events.

Really sorry to hear revelation didn't t have enough Referees. Interesting, though. Sorry I can't help there.

And I love rants. The OP was a rant, designed to stop me doing it at the club.
 
#12
The way we do it at MK RPG is a sort of Single Transferable Vote system.

On vote night, everyone gathers in a room and the GMs pitch their games. Everyone has a slip of paper and lists games in preference order. We then put everyone in their first choice game. If a game is full, some players are bumped to their second choice. Repeat until no games are full. Then if any games have too few people, those people are allocated to their second choice (or next available choice). Continue until everyone's in a game.

All the way through, this is done by humans with an eye on all those soft factors like fairness, who gets on with whom, who keeps getting bumped out of their first choice, and so on. The voting system is a method for quickly getting close to a good solution, which is then finalised by people.

It's a system that works really well, and is very easy to implement. There's no barging or sharp elbows needed, and no-one gets an advantage by being in the right place at the right time.
 
#14
Revelation 2019 had not enough games for all players, which is why some people were left without a game.
I wonder if this problem might not be insurmountable.

Some games have a defined number of players that the game depends on, like Elaine's "A Taste for Murder" that I would love to see offered again. And that's OK because that's the way those games are structured.

But some games can be more flexible.

What if, before player choices are allocated, GMs were asked to, if possible, allow an "emergency slot" only to be used for an additional player in extreme cases where players have no game?

An extra table is a nice thing to have, but when there are only two, or even only three players without a game in might be hard for those two to come together for any real form of RPG, as generally more players not less make a game run smoothly.

Andrew
 
#15
This generally happens and most GMs are happy to accommodate. PbtA games, by their nature, do not always sing with loads of players but they can

Conversely there's also a side of this that says to a group of gamers ... "Well come on then, someone run something?!" ... Especially at a con that is focused on the one system that is the easiest for pick up and play games. A quick scooch around the con for some spare playbooks and I'm sure a game could be pulled together.

And, of course, everyone could consider running more games. It's great and really not as hard as it seems sometimes!
 
#16
@Simonpaulburley I used to play at that club many years ago, met some lovely people but ultimately decided the club wasn't for me as it was completely disorganised in how it ran games. Back then there was zero organisation whatsoever it was just a space for RPGs to happen.

Sounds like they've come a long way since, but still far from perfect.

Tangential anecdote: About 6 years ago on a club night I was asked what I was doing it at the weekend. I said, well going to UK Games Expo of course! And no-one at the table at heard of UK Games Expo :-o the biggest convention right on their doorstep and no-one had heard of it.
 
#17
That seems a good way to keep people out, I'd probably not even want to try to fit with such an attitude.
Such an attitude? Perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more. This isn’t a public room of club we play at; it is my house. I don’t expect visitors to my house to be rude to my wife, insist that we re-arrange the furniture so they can GM more easily; tell us not to crack jokes during the Game, object to us talking about subjects off-topic and also tell me to shut my little dog in the kitchen because they might walk on the rulebooks.
 
#18
I would like to rant that there is no games club within 45 mins commute of my house. Despite living on the edge of London. You Brummies etc don't know how lucky you are with your multiple clubs and fancy balti houses.
 
#19
Brass Jester... OK that new and previously undisclosed information does absolutely change things and totally justify what appeared to be an unwelcoming attitude. Fair enough.

Paul R, I would agree that the Birmingham lot do appear very fortunate. I have high hopes for the recently formed GoPlay in Manchester which was a great time when I went to it last month.
 
#20
I would like to rant that there is no games club within 45 mins commute of my house. Despite living on the edge of London. You Brummies etc don't know how lucky you are with your multiple clubs and fancy balti houses.
It's only in the last few months that it's moved near me. For years it was just this little bit too far away on public transport. Frustrating.

But it is a good club. I'm like a pig in the proverbial at the moment.
 
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